Gorean Talk Radio The One... The Only... Voice of Gor!!!

[22:04] (jess{C}t-tsh): ---`-,-{@-Tonight's Topic: Nature v. Nurture -@}-,-`--- : So many Goreans have been dealt rough hands throughout their lives. For example, surviving ordeals at tender ages contributes to who we become as adults. Have we simply learned over the years how to overcome challenges, and in doing so, cultivated an appreciation for qualities and skills that fit the Gorean model?--
[22:17] ({alyria}Gareth): Did anyone find it refreshing in the books to read "Gor is harsh." "Gor is unfair." without there being a bit of whining to those statements?
[22:19] (wenchW): one of my fav quotes is "whatever hits the fan is NOT going to be distributed evenly"
[22:19] ({alyria}Gareth): i find it empowering to acknowledge those things bluntly
[22:21] (wenchW): on the other hand, i think a lot of it is about perspective...
[22:21] (wenchW): we all have problems, and what may be just a hangnail to me, is a catastrophe to another, and visa versa
[22:22] (kittyspaz{S}t): aye, its all relative
[22:23] * wenchW sticks up my finger, showing everyone my hangnail and expects a pity party...lol
[22:23] * kittyspaz{S}t hollers for Master Wicken............
[22:23] * NazjamRa pulls out tweezers
[22:23] (wenchW): lol...SHUSH!...He's sleeping
[22:23] * kittyspaz{S}t covers her mouth with her hand
[22:24] * wenchW cringes seeing Master NazjamRa and sits on her finger!
[22:24] (NazjamRa): what
[22:24] (kittyspaz{S}t): lol, oh please Master NazjamRa, help poor wench with her hangnail
[22:24] (NazjamRa): I got the tweezers
[22:24] (NazjamRa): anyone have a knife
[22:25] (wenchW): some freinds...i expected you all to say "poor, poor wench..."
[22:25] (kittyspaz{S}t): how kind of You
[22:25] (kittyspaz{S}t): i did, "help poor wench with her hangnail"
[22:25] (NazjamRa): give Me the finger
[22:26] (wenchW): a sadistic Master, tough love friends....ITS NOT FAIR!!!!...waaaaaaaaaaa
[22:26] (kittyspaz{S}t): on topic...........i definitely , without a doubt think my life has made me Gorean
[22:26] (NazjamRa): and yet she complains of a hangnail
[22:27] * wenchW smiles, stopping her silliness and listens to kitty
[22:27] (kittyspaz{S}t): the things that have happened to me, from my childhood on up, have prepared me to be Gorean.........given me the fortitude to know that this is the path for me, though not popular among many in society
[22:28] (kittyspaz{S}t): and that i have the strength of character to be Gorean but now i sound like i'm patting my own back, ewwww
[22:29] (wenchW): hey....you told me to put that note in my personell file...whats the diff?
[22:38] (wenchW): i have been reading and rereading the topic....
[22:39] (wenchW): i am not sure if my life is whats made me "gorean"...its made me who i am....and that most Gorean ideals fit into that
[22:40] (kittyspaz{S}t): so if Gorean ideals fit into who you are not, doesn't it stand to reason that you also fit Gorean ideals?
[22:40] (kittyspaz{S}t): now even
[22:41] (naja_S-F): well as kardelan pointed outto me one day i haave always in one way or another had gorean ideals whether i had a name for it or not
[22:41] (kittyspaz{S}t): yup
[22:41] (wenchW): to me, Master Zedojehn: thought slaves are simply what their owners make them anyway.. you know, with the whole slaves are slaves not "gorean" thing
[22:42] (kittyspaz{S}t): that's how i feel about being pagan as well, i have always been just couldn't put a tag on it
[22:42] (naja_S-F): yes kitty me too
[22:42] (naja_S-F): even when i was a girl
[22:42] (kittyspaz{S}t): so that statement by kardelan makes perfect sense
[22:43] (kittyspaz{S}t): but i feel it much stronger now, as an adult, with more education and exposure
[22:43] (naja_S-F): i have always served some one all my life
[22:43] (naja_S-F): and i have always followed a wiccan path even though it had no name back then
[22:44] (wenchW): to Master Zedojehn: hmmm...Master controls what i do or not, and what He labels me...but can He 'make' me into something other than what i am?
[22:45] (naja_S-F): i think you are always you no matter what or who but They can contrrol what you do or say
[22:46] (wenchW): Zedojehn: no, but I was referring to the popular belief that slaves are slaves and can't "claim" to be "gorean", you know?
[22:46] (wenchW): me Smith: aaah, yes...lol...i only am what He labels me for sure...if to Him i am a looney toon, thats it!
[22:46] (wenchW): Zedojehn: well yes, all my sluts are kooks
[22:46] (kittyspaz{S}t): noooooo
[22:46] (kittyspaz{S}t): lol
[22:46] (wenchW): me Smith is me by the way...gotta change that
[22:47] (jess{C}t-tsh): ---`-,-{@-Tonight's Topic: Nature v. Nurture -@}-,-`--- : So many Goreans have been dealt rough hands throughout their lives. Have we simply learned over the years how to overcome challenges, and in doing so, cultivated an appreciation for qualities and skills that fit the Gorean model? Would you say you're gorean *because* of this?--
[22:48] (naja_S-F): i also think that females are by Nature slaves at heart but some try to fight it
[22:50] (wenchW): He'll be in shortly, i think, but busy with something else right now
[23:04] (wenchW): on topic...i tried to live as my environment said...first '60's suppressed womanhood...then womans lib...
[23:04] (wenchW): and relationships that were frustrating power struggles...
[23:05] (wenchW): then i found what worked for me...whethere its called 'Gor' or not
[23:09] (wenchW): hmmm...it did try to tell us it was wrong to serve...but didnt we end up LEARNING it was RIGHT?
[23:09] (wenchW): at least some of us
[23:10] (naja_S-F): yes wench
[23:11] (naja_S-F): Nurture has told us that what is in our Nature was wrong
[23:11] (wenchW): lol...perhaps, though, if my parents and teachers had said "it is THE way" i'd still be rebelling
[23:12] (wenchW): dunno...would my nature take over and listen?
[23:13] (naja_S-F): maybe after a rebellious period it would wench
[23:15] (kittyspaz{S}t): jess , offensive,..........say it ain't so?
[23:15] (naja_S-F): nooooo not you jess
[23:15] (NazjamRa): what I miss sorry been watching tom & jerry cartoons
[23:16] (wenchW): i agree, naja...most likely
[23:17] (feylin): jess has been giving some of her own background, Master NazjamRa..
[23:17] (NazjamRa): ah
[23:17] (jess{C}t-tsh): ---`-,-{@-Tonight's Topic: Nature v. Nurture -@}-,-`--- : So many Goreans have been dealt rough hands throughout their lives. Have we simply learned over the years how to overcome challenges, and in doing so, cultivated an appreciation for qualities and skills that fit the Gorean model? Would you say you're gorean *because* of this?--
[23:17] (NazjamRa): like her femnazi days
[23:17] (feylin): yes, Master NazjamRa.
[23:17] (NazjamRa): ah ok
[23:18] (Sa`ng-Fori^): I can't say I am Gorean because of any reason, I am who I am, it just happens to be the best description.
[23:18] (NazjamRa): only to a certain point would she listen
[23:19] (feylin): i just wonder if you think that period in your life was your rebellious period, jess, before coming back to your nature.
[23:19] (feylin): and i apologize if you have already stated it and i missed it.
[23:19] (Sa`ng-Fori^): I was raised to be a Man, it just so happens the values I was taught, fit alot of the Gorean mindset
[23:19] (NazjamRa): does being self raised to a point count
[23:20] (Sa`ng-Fori^): of course
[23:20] (NazjamRa): ok just checking
[23:20] (Sa`ng-Fori^): but let's remember, by the age of 10, You are pretty much raised, the rest is just learning the extra's that are needed.
[23:20] (NazjamRa): depends on how you define raised
[23:21] (Sa`ng-Fori^): the basics of who You are
[23:21] (NazjamRa): cause alot of times by the time I was 10 I was left to My own devices
[23:21] (Sa`ng-Fori^): those are instilled early on
[23:21] (NazjamRa): that explains alot then
[23:22] (Sa`ng-Fori^): Hippy Parents Naz?
[23:22] (jess{C}t-tsh): at the time it wasn't rebellious, i wasn't doing anything i saw as rebellious... in retrospect, i guess it must have been. i know that it's what i did before i came back to my true nature. it's what i had to explore in order to understand who i really was.
[23:22] (NazjamRa): no actually raised mostly by My Mother
[23:22] (NazjamRa): strict household
[23:22] (NazjamRa): damn did I get My ass beat alot as a kid
[23:22] (feylin): Thanks, jess.
[23:22] * feylin smiles
[23:22] (Sa`ng-Fori^): what do You consider to be a strict household?
[23:22] (naja_S-F): so is it also Nature for a Master or are You taught that by an athority figure in Ypur life
[23:23] (Sa`ng-Fori^): Most of us were taught by authority figures
[23:23] (NazjamRa): if I was raised today like she did it would be called abuse and I would be in foster home
[23:23] (Sa`ng-Fori^): authority being suffering cosequences of Your actions or inaction
[23:23] (NazjamRa): she said do it or else
[23:24] (Sa`ng-Fori^): I can remember a few times, My mother would have gone to jail
[23:24] (NazjamRa): but My father was the more relaxed one at times
[23:24] (Sa`ng-Fori^): yeah, No negotiation, No time outs
[23:24] (NazjamRa): ass whoopings
[23:24] (Sa`ng-Fori^): and if I had told My mother No, I would have needed dentures
[23:25] (NazjamRa): I just learned to run really fast then
[23:25] (naja_S-F): so then You say it is Nature for slves and Nutrture for Masters?
[23:25] (Sa`ng-Fori^): It is nature for Me
[23:25] (NazjamRa): I would have to say both
[23:25] (NazjamRa): for it's there from nature and nutured out
[23:26] (wenchW): lol
[23:27] (wenchW): i've always debated its certainly both, for both Free and slaves
[23:29] (kittyspaz{S}t): permission to go afk for a bit Master?
[23:30] (Sa`ng-Fori^): of course
[23:30] (kittyspaz{S}t): thank You Master
[23:30] (Sa`ng-Fori^): Tal Zedojehn
[23:30] ({alyria}Gareth): greetings, Master Zedojehn
[23:30] (wenchW): there can be inner, natural qualities that accept or reject what we are exposed to...on the other hand, no matter what we were born with, what we are exposed to makes a big dif
[23:30] (Sa`ng-Fori^): agreed wench
[23:42] (naja_S-F): on topic i'm not sure i would say i'm gorean beacuse of any adversity or challenge but maybe in spite of it
[23:42] (jess{C}t-tsh): could you elaborate, naja?
[23:44] (naja_S-F): well in my life i have served ppl in particular Men that i guess i would say didn't desrve such devotion and loyalty but that did not stop me from doing it
[23:45] (jess{C}t-tsh): i getcha.
[23:49] (Zedojehn): People cultivate an appreciation for strength and self discipline that may have been lacking.. I wouldn't say it has anything to do with being Gorean though.. nor would it make someone Gorean to overcome such things
[23:50] (naja_S-F): could Ypu please explain more Master Zedojehn?
[23:50] (wenchW): do you think that what are called gorean values just fit into who we are...
[23:50] (Zedojehn): Not really, I only have 5 minutes.. but I'll do my best.. laughs
[23:50] (wenchW): or that we fit into it, somehow?
[23:51] (Sa`ng-Fori^): but are Gorean values any different than the family values of the 50's? on a basic level of course
[23:51] (wenchW): lol...even more challenging...explaining Master Zedojehn in 5 minutes
[23:51] (Zedojehn): If you succeed in overcoming the "rough stuff" you learn to appreciate your own strength more, self belief & discipline.. I would call it a human trait not simply a Gorean trait.. thats what I was trying to say
[23:51] (MasterAdain): Hell I been reading and studing Gor for about 3 years now and I still dont know everything there is to know
[23:51] (MasterAdain): lol
[23:52] (kardelan{S-F}): well women were pretty sexually repressed in the 50s so thats very different from gorean philosophy
[23:52] (kardelan{S-F}): beavers mom was pretty uptight
[23:52] (Sa`ng-Fori^): true
[23:52] (naja_S-F): thank You Master Zedojehn that makes it more clear
[23:52] (kardelan{S-F}): only bad girls liked sex
[23:52] (Sa`ng-Fori^): but Mr. Cleaver was the Master of the House
[23:52] (kardelan{S-F}): and only really bad girls had sex
[23:53] (MasterAdain): Oh Hell
[23:53] (Adilah): chances are so were your grandparents
[23:53] * kaimi blinks
[23:53] (MasterAdain): Mrs Cleaver ...Gorean ..... Thats not even right...lol
[23:53] (Sa`ng-Fori^): I really wonder if they were as sexually repressed as we are led to believe
[23:53] * kaimi must have missed some good convo as she always thought only really good girls had sex...hehehe
[23:53] (kardelan{S-F}): she was submissive but certainly not being truly female by gorean standards
[23:53] (Sa`ng-Fori^): they didn't talk about it, but there sure where a lot of kids born
[23:54] (kardelan{S-F}): no birth control
[23:54] (kardelan{S-F}): lol
[23:54] (naja_S-F): only really bad girls are good at it haha
[23:54] (MasterAdain): they were all catholic
[23:54] (MasterAdain): lol
[23:54] (MasterAdain): no offecnce to anyone
[23:54] (Adilah): I asked my grandmother once about it, her reply was " how ever often your grandfather wished it"
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): but she wasnt supposed to like it..it was duty
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): not passion
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): or that was the line they sold
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): lol
[23:55] (Adilah): uhhuh lol
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): my mom was pretty uptight
[23:55] (kaimi): i was at a b-day party for Master's mom's 80th ..and his sister was telling us how their grandmother used to tell them to go out and have sex...hahaha
[23:55] (kardelan{S-F}): and having lots of yrs of catholic confinement..we got the message pretty clear
[23:56] (wenchW): i think most were, Master Sa`ng-Fori^...repressed....
[23:56] (wenchW): some let loose in the bedroom, but it was a struggle
[23:58] (Sa`ng-Fori^): just something to ponder on that, would it be safe to say that the Gor books are a manifistation of what was wanted?
[23:58] (jesmgill): a question please if this girl may ask please
[23:59] (naja_S-F): was wondering on that the other day myself Master
[23:59] (Sa`ng-Fori^): of course
[23:59] (MasterAdain): Hmmm intresting consept

[00:01] (naja_S-F): considering when the books were written is that the mindset for the times Master Sa`ng-Fori^?
[00:01] (wenchW): they were certainly a manifistation of what JN wanted...in part...
[00:01] (kaimi): actually, Master and i discussed that once
[00:02] (wenchW): although "Imaginative Sex" cast a different light on that
[00:02] (Sa`ng-Fori^): well you had all them sexually opressed women
[00:02] (naja_S-F): please explain wench
[00:02] (kaimi): the books reflected so many cultures, and in all of them, you had the strong provider,(Master) and the nurturing, loving, caretaker(slave)
[00:02] (kaimi): i think it reflected the need for a much simplier lifestyle
[00:03] (Sa`ng-Fori^): I believe so
[00:03] (kaimi): sad thing is...when an older friend of mine learned of my "slave heart", she said she was disappointed in me
[00:03] (naja_S-F): roles that were more clearly defined?
[00:03] (Sa`ng-Fori^): why is that kaimi?
[00:03] (kaimi): yes, definitely
[00:04] (kaimi): because she seems women more to the independent...ummmm "Free" type...her husband is a stay at home...
[00:04] (kaimi): it really bothered me that she would say that....
[00:05] (naja_S-F): i understand kaimi
[00:06] (kaimi): i don't condemn anyone's lifestyle, as long as noone is getting hurt that doesn't want to be...lol
[00:06] (wenchW): oh, sorry...the book "Imaginative Sex" was more non-fiction....about both genders really enjoying sex
[00:06] (naja_S-F): yes lol
[00:06] (Adilah): sorry to hear that kaimi, with her husband being home I'd think that she'd appreciate your desires even more
[00:07] (naja_S-F): how so Mistress?
[00:07] (Adilah): obviously she sees that others have a desire to serve
[00:09] (kaimi): well...she was an odd one anyway...
[00:10] (naja_S-F): but it doesn't seem Mistress that she has an appreciation of that service.