Gorean Talk Radio The One... The Only... Voice of Gor!!!

[20:04] (jesszabelle-tsh): Tonight's Topic: Conflict Resolution: Conflict can be the most mild disagreement to outright argument. It may be between yourself and another Gorean; between Goreans and mundanes; inner conflict. How does being Gorean impact how you deal with conflict? Do you find that this then changes how they respond to you?

[20:06] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): that's an interesting topic, jess
[20:06] (jesszabelle-tsh): thanks, alyria
[20:06] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): Some conflicts i dismiss outright, wish them well, and let them go without the benefit of my wonderful, intelligent insights.
[20:07] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): if i bother to clash with someone at all, there is something at stake, some investment in that relationship.
[20:08] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): it's pretty simple to let someone go their merry way without comment if you don't care about them in the first place.

[20:10] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): if someone thinks differently from me, that's doesn't affect or hurt me in and of itself.
[20:10] (Gareth_H): My philosophy in this area has always been to never fight a battle when there is nothing to be gained by winning
[20:10] ({alyria}Gareth`TSH): as a TSH here, i kind of count on people to think differently, to hold and express opinions.

[20:11] (feylin): i grew up in a tense household, so humor was my way of cooling the air...now, because i am older, it looks flippant. But i do love a good debate.
[20:11] ({alyria}Gareth): people i care about, whose fate matters to me, are more likely to be aware that i think differently on something because i won't just blow it off.

[20:15] ({alyria}Gareth): i'm not sure how much being Gorean affects how i deal with conflict. If it's a FM, there is always having the last word in that conflict, "Yes, Master."

[20:24] (aurea{W}): however on topic we did have a conflict last night..well..ok *i* had a conflict ..Master had a pissed off slave..adn seemed oblivious to that..lol
[20:25] * wenchW listens...thinking i've been there too
[20:25] (EdumakatedRedneK): Well you dont reward acting out with positive behavior.
[20:25] (kittyspaz{S}t): aye
[20:25] (aurea{W}): so i took a walk and went and begged to speak
[20:25] (aurea{W}): i did not act out, Master..was just ornery
[20:26] (Gareth_H): a fine semantic distinction
[20:26] (EdumakatedRedneK): well hmm... thats a difficult one..
[20:26] (aurea{W}): yes Master but a distinction none the less, i was angry, but not snotty or sarcastic or whiny,,
[20:27] (EdumakatedRedneK): and...?
[20:27] (Gareth_H): I try to avoid anger
[20:27] (wenchW): think to not let the other person know you are angry would be dishonest
[20:27] (Gareth_H): if I allow someone to mae Me angry...then I have given up more control than I like to
[20:27] (Gareth_H): make Me angry as well
[20:28] (aurea{W}): hence the walk..gathering of thoughts and then *calm* speaking..and sharing of thoughts
[20:28] (Gareth_H): I do not always succeed....however...I do try to avoid this
[20:28] (hannah): NOT just dishonest but make things more difficult as well cause that can be felt
[20:29] (Gareth_H): and I find that anger serves very little in the way of a useful purpose
[20:29] (wenchW): what happened after you talked?
[20:29] (EdumakatedRedneK): so it work out?
[20:29] (Gareth_H): I try to limit it to annoyed :)
[20:30] ({alyria}Gareth): how is it dishonest to not let the other person know you are angry?
[20:30] (aurea{W}): he acknowleded that he *might* have been in error and i agreed i could have handled it better in my presentation..and we both agreed that we are just a tad on edge and will try and be more mindful of each other
[20:30] ({alyria}Gareth): to overtly LIE and say, you are not angry when you are is a different story
[20:30] (hannah): you are keeping things and trying to hide in a way, maybe aurea?
[20:30] (wenchW): because a relationship involves communicating what you feel...
[20:31] ({alyria}Gareth): sometimes you can say, "it's momentary" or "it will pass" or "it's not all you in this" is maybe a reasonable way to share the emotion.
[20:31] (wenchW): if you are feeling something, and "bottle it up" are you relating well?
[20:32] ({alyria}Gareth): how necessary is it to stop and count every single jelly bean in the bag?
[20:32] (wenchW): i'm not talking about coming out with every momentary feeling
[20:32] (EdumakatedRedneK): but they are both chimping out sounds like to me there both on edge.
[20:33] (kittyspaz{S}t): yuppers
[20:33] (wenchW): and to me, me saying i am angery isnt blaming the other person at all
[20:34] (Gareth_H): anger....can create words...that are neither intended or meant
[20:35] (wenchW): when it gets out of control, it can, Master...but i'm talking about discussing it without it getting to that point
[20:35] (jesszabelle-tsh): Tonight's Topic: Conflict Resolution: Conflict can be the most mild disagreement to outright argument. It may be between yourself and another Gorean; between Goreans and mundanes; inner conflict. How does being Gorean impact how you deal with conflict? Do you find that this then changes how they respond to you?
[20:36] ({alyria}Gareth): sometimes, especially between peers, a simple agreement to disagree about something is adequate to resolve a conflict, especially one that doesn't affect that much how people live.
[20:36] (wenchW): it sure can, alyria...
[20:37] (feylin): umm..am i the only one with a quick (but short) temper?
[20:37] (Gareth_H): anger is to Me a severe state.....and one which I avoid
[20:37] (aurea{W}): nope, feylin
[20:37] ({alyria}Gareth): i think the Village People rock, wench, but you don't? How much does that affect our lives?
[20:37] (wenchW): "Anger is "an emotional state that varies in intensity from mild irritation to intense fury and rage," "
[20:37] (aurea{W}): i flash hot like a flare and burn out quickly, feylin
[20:37] (wenchW): perhaps its rage that you think of when you hear the word anger, Master?
[20:38] ({alyria}Gareth): i don't have a quick temper
[20:39] (hannah): nor do i alyria
[20:39] (hannah): but Master can already tell when i am upset
[20:39] (Gareth_H): I dont linguistically see irritation as anger....nor do I see annoyed as anger....anger..To Me is a state in which reason is subsumed in emotion
[20:39] (aurea{W}): now, i don't always call it temper..but irratation..i get annoyed quickly
[20:40] (Gareth_H): for Me reason is to be encouraged and anger is to be avoided
[20:40] (Gareth_H): and in My mind...part of self Mastery
[20:40] (aurea{W}): hmm by that definition i am not angry then..cause i am almost always resonable
[20:41] (aurea{W}): well in my mind at least.lol
[20:41] (wenchW): "Many words in the English vocabulary describe various forms of anger that differ primarily by their intensity of passion and arousal. Here is a partial list, arranged in approximate order from the least to the most intense: annoyance, miffed, irritation, frustration, sulking, exasperation, offended, indignation, incensed, pissed, outrage, ire, wrath, rage, fury, ferocity, and livid"
[20:41] ({alyria}Gareth): i can be both absolutely reasonable and quite angry at the same time
[20:41] * feylin is without reason
[20:42] (Gareth_H): The dictionary defintion not withstanding....I simply dont see it that way....
[20:43] (Gareth_H): I suppose that for Me...it may well be a result of the phrase...so and so MADE Me angry
[20:43] (Gareth_H): I do not wish to yield that control of Me to another person or situation
[20:43] ({alyria}Gareth): how many of us can calmly say, "i would thank you to drop no more anvils on my foot in the future."
[20:43] (Gareth_H): I prefer to take charge of My emotional state as much as possible
[20:44] (wenchW): thats usually not an accurate phrase...no one has that power over another
[20:44] ({alyria}Gareth): do all conflicts involve anger?
[20:44] (wenchW): i do understand the point You are making
[20:44] (EdumakatedRedneK): no....
[20:44] ({alyria}Gareth): i don't think so necessarily.
[20:44] (Gareth_H): I would agree....and if no one else has that control...then the person in question must choose to be angry :)
[20:45] (Gareth_H): I choose...whenever possible..not to be
[20:46] (wenchW): if my car doesnt start and i want to go somewhere, i'm most likely going to be angry...but with no other person involve..then i control how i handle that anger
[20:46] (Gareth_H): why be angry over a mechanical difficulty
[20:47] (wenchW): but that still doesnt deny i'm angry
[20:47] (Gareth_H): One of the things I notice...that sometimes makes Me wonder...is when people get angry and yell at other people driving...that cant even hear them :)
[20:47] * aurea{W} whistles casually
[20:47] (wenchW): because i wanted that #&)_*@! blasted car to start!
[20:48] (feylin): lol
[20:48] ({alyria}Gareth): i dislike being in the car with someone yelling at the other drivers. once told a friend, "Get you a** out there and tell that driver what you think. I'm the one stuck in this stupid car hearing it!"
[20:49] (wenchW): if i take control over how i feel, i dont kick the windshield in...i may put my energy into something constructive
[20:50] (wenchW): but that doesnt deny i am angry cause i couldnt get where i was going
[20:50] (wenchW): and i got all dressed up for FRIGGIN NOTHING!
[20:50] ({alyria}Gareth): to be angry about something, you have to care about it to begin with
[20:51] (wenchW): very true...
[20:51] ({alyria}Gareth): and being all dressed up represents an investment.
[20:51] ({alyria}Gareth): and even if you can make the phone connection to the meeting, you didn't get your donut and coffee.
[20:52] (wenchW): if someone gets one car length of you in traffic, sometimes it helps to put it in the perspective of "what does it matter at all?"
[20:52] * {alyria}Gareth is not an aggressive driver at all
[20:52] * {alyria}Gareth laughs
[20:52] (Gareth_H): I guess I am getting tied up in the semantics here
[20:52] (Gareth_H): and I am not an aggresive driver at all....near death experiences will do that to you :)
[20:52] ({alyria}Gareth): though once in a while i will say, "Keep that up buddy, and you'll be collecting that Darwin award soon enough."
[20:53] (wenchW): lol on shaving my legs too!
[20:54] (aurea{W}): what is a Darwin award?
[20:54] (feylin): wasabi
[20:54] * {alyria}Gareth chuckles
[20:54] (wenchW): i'm going to divulge something totally different i got angry at Master for...
[20:54] (jesszabelle-tsh): Tonight's Topic: Conflict Resolution: Conflict can be the most mild disagreement to outright argument. It may be between yourself and another Gorean; between Goreans and mundanes; inner conflict. How does being Gorean impact how you deal with conflict? Do you find that this then changes how they respond to you?
[20:54] (wenchW): i am a sentimental person, i like to hang onto "mementos"....
[20:55] ({alyria}Gareth): i really AM not an aggressive driver, the right-of-way isn't worth risking my life or even dealing with my insurance company.
[20:55] ({alyria}Gareth): i've got much better things to do than to ride in an ambulance
[20:55] (wenchW): when Master moved in, He threw out a lot of things that looked like junk to me...
[20:56] ({alyria}Gareth): my kid and i have conflict because of sharing the same house and having different standards of conduct and housekeeping.
[20:56] (wenchW): i had all kinds of reactions to that...
[20:56] ({alyria}Gareth): we are getting so much better at resolving our conflicts.
[20:56] ({alyria}Gareth): i can't just say, "Because I'm the Mom" anymore.
[20:57] (wenchW): it was certainly something that i was glad i talked with Him about...expressed how i felt
[20:57] (aurea{W}): no but you can say..because this is *my* house
[20:57] ({alyria}Gareth): and when we feel tempers rising a little, we can say "Uh-oh, let's back this up. I got a 'tude because _______, and you copped a counter-'tude."
[20:57] (wenchW): lol...hope you're not talking to me, aurea!
[20:57] (aurea{W}): no wench!..lol
[20:58] (Gareth_H): thats a reasonable approach My girl
[20:58] ({alyria}Gareth): occasionally, in the face of a disagreement, i will tell him, "Okay, for ten minutes, you are in "charge" of this decision. What are you gonna do?"
[20:58] (Gareth_H): and wench....when that happened did you ask why things were thrown away?
[20:59] ({alyria}Gareth): she was a perfect angel and noone knew that precious inherited vintage hats and hatboxes were tossed and that she was upset.
[21:00] (wenchW): i knew why, Master...they looked like junk to Him, and He likes an orderly home
[21:01] ({alyria}Gareth): 72 hours' notice to move them or they are being moved would have been nice
[21:01] (wenchW): the crux of the matter is they had value to me that they didnt have to Him...
[21:02] ({alyria}Gareth): did this lead to a good sharing?
[21:03] (wenchW): yes, it did...through it, He understands me better
[21:05] ({alyria}Gareth): there are things kept for sentiment, for future possible need, and those things that stay because of inertia
[21:05] (wenchW): coure i have a streak of "hoarding" and can get sentimental over a LOT of stuff...
[21:06] (wenchW): i've been willing to make comprimises there...but i think i'm a lot more willing because He knows how hard that is for me
[21:07] (jesszabelle-tsh): Tonight's Topic: Conflict Resolution: Conflict can be the most mild disagreement to outright argument. It may be between yourself and another Gorean; between Goreans and mundanes; inner conflict. How does being Gorean impact how you deal with conflict? Do you find that this then changes how they respond to you?
[21:08] ({alyria}Gareth): maybe we should have an online garage sale or put the "inertia" possessions that are shippable on eBay.
[21:08] (aurea{W}): woot! sounds like a plan to me...list 2 kids and a teen
[21:08] (feylin): lol
[21:09] ({alyria}Gareth): my little sister had a horrible situation that had developed over time and needed help getting out of it, which her siblings, myself included, provided.
[21:10] (wenchW): think part of being Gorean is acceptance who we are, and who others are...their inner nature
[21:10] ({alyria}Gareth): we also had conflicts at times--a few big hairy ones
[21:10] (jesszabelle-tsh): Welcome back, Master Gareth
[21:10] (Gareth_H): I would agree....and this is so...even when that nature is occasionally frustrating
[21:11] (Gareth_H): and what I try hard not to do....is let frustration blossom into anger....which is not at all to say...that I am completely succesful
[21:11] (Gareth_H): but a goal may be worthwhile...even if it is never completely obtainable
[21:11] (Gareth_H): and thats not let
[21:11] (Gareth_H): important that missing word not
[21:12] (Gareth_H): well it is there...nevermind :)
[21:12] (Gareth_H): I do get confused by My own constructions on occasion :)
[21:12] (jesszabelle-tsh): it's okay, i followed it.
[21:13] (aurea{W}): i actually did as well
[21:13] ({alyria}Gareth): sometimes, even if you are absolutely right in your position, acknowledging the sense of the other person's position by the light they see is a way to work through a conflict.
[21:13] ({alyria}Gareth): something like, "If that same anvil had fallen or been dropped on my foot, i would not be a happy camper, either, whether the anvil had fallen or been dropped."
[21:13] (Gareth_H): I agree and what I try to do is to see why someone feels as they do....or does what they do
[21:14] (wenchW): think in acknowleging i am frustrated, irritated, annooyed, etc i am acknowleging my anger and can talk about it or do something about it without feeling rageful, etc
[21:14] (aurea{W}): i have cut short many a conflict by simply asking for someone to explain where they are coming from and asking them to listen to mine *after* listening to their point of view..doesn't mean we have to agree..but it usually allows for respect of each others views
[21:15] ({alyria}Gareth): that's better than, "I didn't drop that anvil, so I don't want to hear about it." or "Aw, c'mon, it was just an anvil, I once had a piano dropped on my head, so quitcherbitchin."
[21:15] (wenchW): lol
[21:15] (Gareth_H): I try to...and yes I stole this one.....listen first for understanding before I try to be understood
[21:16] ({alyria}Gareth): i take some comfort in know that absolute understanding is not attainable and we are all striving for a higher level of misunderstanding, and this is enlightenment.
[21:16] (Gareth_H): and for the record...I think this is extraordinarily difficult for Masters
[21:16] (wenchW): have another example i recently got angry about...
[21:16] (Gareth_H): because Our first instinct....is to solve problems.....
[21:17] (Gareth_H): when sometimes the solution is to understand
[21:17] (aurea{W}): Warlok: Gareth your giving away all our secrets!
[21:17] (Gareth_H): thats it...now I am sure to be called before the disciplinary committee :)
[21:18] ({alyria}Gareth): maybe we should get Him drunk and get Him to read us the whole "Master's Manual"
[21:18] * aurea{W} laughs
[21:18] (wenchW): at our work holiday party we were supposed to sit with 2 other couples...things got messed up and ended up sitting alone with 2 people i didnt know hardly at all, one of them non-verbal...paid $35 for Master to go to that and we both had a pretty miserable time...
[21:20] (wenchW): i was ready to give the coworker i saw at fault for that the cold shoulder for a long time
[21:20] ({alyria}Gareth): did you learn "the rest of the story" and gain understanding or was the person merely incompetent to follow through on a stated plan?
[21:26] ({alyria}Gareth): i'm using the anvil on the foot as an generic metaphor for the doo-doo that happens in life and starts many conflicts.
[21:26] (wenchW): with that party ended up rationally talking about how i felt the next work day, and the way i felt we would NOT be coming next year....another coworker said she'd make sure the same thing didnt happen again...
[21:27] ({alyria}Gareth): do you believe that coworker enough to spend $35 on the party next year?
[21:28] (wenchW): lol...perhaps its worth the gamble just to find out
[21:29] (wenchW): it felt good that i just didnt become a doormat about it
[21:29] ({alyria}Gareth): if you know you are gambling, it's easier to take.
[21:30] * {alyria}Gareth laughs
[21:30] (wenchW): and we'll get there a half hour early, then TELL people where to sit when they come in!
[21:31] ({alyria}Gareth): i really really don't like staying on hold listening to bad music for dozens of minutes. i called a state agency and was directed to the outsourcer who directed me back to the morons who directed me to them.
[21:31] (Gareth_H): On this I can speak
[21:31] ({alyria}Gareth): so, two hours blown on the phone doing something i dislike and ZIP as far as results
[21:31] ({alyria}Gareth): and less hope than i had going into it to get this resolved.
[21:32] * NazjamRa scratches head
[21:32] (Gareth_H): odds are the person you were directed to...was angry because the person who directed you to them...was mistaken
[21:32] * aurea{W} chuckles
[21:32] (Gareth_H): and likely.....the only place he knows to send you
[21:32] ({alyria}Gareth): i summarized the situation and have emailed the info officer and got an email that it has been directed to XYZ department. Whether that works or not we will see.
[21:32] (Gareth_H): and probably...the only place he can send you
[21:33] (Gareth_H): I get to make that direction about 20 times a day or so :)
[21:33] ({alyria}Gareth): i was courteous to the outsourcer lady--and asked whether she was certain, because that was where i got HER number.
[21:34] ({alyria}Gareth): Master, this is kinda important, because unfair BAD things happen in about 8 days if it's not fixed unless a double-billed fee gets paid again.
[21:34] (Gareth_H): I do understand...and I do empathise with the customer when it happens....but....I still have to direct them to the only place I can direct them to :)
[21:35] (Gareth_H): and you may rest assured...when I do that...I am sure :)
[21:35] ({alyria}Gareth): that is a shortcoming of the organization's scripting and training if there is no way to resolve a legitimate issue
[21:36] (Gareth_H): there is usually a way...but the key is for the right people to handle the issue correctly
[21:36] ({alyria}Gareth): *LOL* finding the person in the phone hell isn't always that simple
[21:37] (wenchW): i hear you there, alyria!
[21:37] ({alyria}Gareth): this problem should have been resolved in twelve minutes flat
[21:38] (feylin): have you tried again, alyria?
[21:38] (Gareth_H): tell you what though...anger dosent get you very far in those situations
[21:38] (feylin): sometimes you can hook up with someone brand new.
[21:39] ({alyria}Gareth): i sent an email to that department, then forwarded that to the information office, and got a response that it has been forwarded to the right place.
[21:39] ({alyria}Gareth): and, failing that, i have a few strings to pull fairly high up.
[21:40] ({alyria}Gareth): but you don't jump to stringpulling without first making the effort to go thru the system
[21:40] (wenchW): absolutely
[21:41] (Wyrd): I can generally get escalated pretty quick, when the person on the phone figures out, I have gone through all the steps on their script.
[21:41] ({alyria}Gareth): warning to the keepers of red tape: The more hoops you make people jump through, and the more aggravation you put them through, the harder it will be for the average person to stay nice to deal with.
[21:41] (Gareth_H): the problem is alyria...the keepers of the red tape dont answer the phone :)
[21:42] ({alyria}Gareth): they should get a day in the barrel doing so to get a feel for better policymaking.
[21:42] (Gareth_H): should maybe...will..not likely
[21:45] (wenchW): what "should" happen isnt going to...
[21:46] (wenchW): but i think in all 3 of the situations mentioned we figured out what the best action to take was....
[21:46] (wenchW): none of them involved taking out rage with the person(s) involved
[21:46] ({alyria}Gareth): this was last week--i'm still working on it
[21:46] (Gareth_H): and I suppose I have had cause to think on this a great deal..professionally..because part of My job is to teach agents...how not to explode when they are told to do things that are physically impossible
[21:47] (wenchW): but to ignore we were angry, and do nothing would of been counter productive
[21:47] (Gareth_H): Once.....when I was told to do something in that vein....I told the customer....If I could do that sir..I would never leave the house :)
[21:48] (Gareth_H): By the way...that customer laughed..and it de-escalated
[21:48] ({alyria}Gareth): sometimes i have to cool down and take effective action
[21:49] ({alyria}Gareth): it may momentarily blow off steam to yell at someone who can't blow the whistle or ring the bell when the train is offtrack
[21:49] ({alyria}Gareth): but that doesn't get the train back on the track.
[21:50] (Gareth_H): nope..it dosent...and yelling at folks is not a really effective motivator on a telephone :)
[21:50] ({alyria}Gareth): i don't yell at folks on the phone, at least not the ones i call.
[21:50] * {alyria}Gareth laughs
[21:50] ({alyria}Gareth): they might not want to know how many fingers i am waving while i'm sitting on hold listening to rap music.
[21:54] ({alyria}Gareth): in the books, the characters resolved conflicts with the Sword.
[21:54] (Gareth_H): sometimes...and sometimes conflicts were resolved with the notion in mind that the sword could be used if necessary